Following up on this: http://ministry.kronosaur.com/record.hexm?id=2182
Otoroshi cannon (currently level 3): An omni version of a level 1 recoilless cannon. Some omni weapons are 2 levels higher than their non-omni equivalent, some are only 1. Given that the Otoroshi loses damage as well as fire rate and the accuracy advantage of omni is largely negated by the low shot speed, it's mediocre even for level 2. It's also too expensive even for level 3.
Sova-10 particle turret (currently level 4): This actually has lower raw DPS than the Otoroshi. However, higher shot speed and better damage type push it up to level 3. Certainly not 4 though. It's less than half as good as the omni particle, which compares unfavorably to the level 4 omni turbolaser (see below).
Omnidirectional particle beam weapon (level 5): The particle beam weapon series suffers from being a step down in raw damage from turbolasers. The damage type only makes them better against armors over level 2, while they're worse against shields and level 1 armor, with higher energy consumption and a worse enhancing device. The forward firing particle beams partly make up for this with faster fire rates, but the omni does not (due to 15 and 16 being the same at 30 fps). I'd suggest improving it's rate of fire to 14 (almost 4.3 shots/second).
Takao launcher: This is a bit expensive for its level.
Ammunition prices and weights: All of the launchers in EP and CC have ammunition that's several times cheaper (and sometimes lighter) than equivalents in core. I'd call them dirt cheap, but that's probably an understatement in space. I generally don't think ammo in core is overpriced, although some of them are not very good. At one point I did the math on the cost of fuel consumption for some non-ammo weapons and ammo costs were only 2-3 times as high per point of damage for weapons of the same level. But the ammo weapons had substantially higher DPS.
For example, the Takao launcher. Most of its missiles have more damage but less WMD than the nearest equivalent.
T-11: 1/8 the price, 1/3 the mass of the KM500.
T-105: 1/6 the price, 2/9 the mass of the KM550 (which is probably a bit too heavy and expensive).
Kairyu: The old version had 1/4 the price of the Gotha-400. Unfortunately, the new version is a serious nerf because it's poor against compartments and nobody uses missiles against gunships. Raising the WMD of the submunitions to 3 or 4 would make it appropriate for its level, but still underpriced.
Shinyo: 1/7 the price, 1/5 the mass, 2.5 times the fire rate of the M5 Nemesis (which is too heavy and slow firing to be good). These are apparently balanced by scarcity, which is both annoying and unbalanced if you manage to get a lot of them. (I can think of a couple ways.)
Yamato-class and Sentoku-class: Kuma repeaters are a good start, but these are levels 7 and 9. They should have the level 7 advanced Kuma repeater. That also matches the level 7 Taran on the Imperator (though not as good).
Yeah, EP & CC ammo are underpriced, even if you ARE paying for them in dollars as well as credits.
IIRC the omni particle beam has a range advantage over turbolasers, which is worth taking into consideration.
I agree about the Yamato and Sentoku needing advanced kuma repeaters. Right now, in a 1-on-1 intro fight, the Sentoku loses to the Imperator when before it could beat it. As the Sentoku class is the APD's biggest capital ship class it should beat the Imperator which is the smaller of the 2 ED capital ship classes.
One reason that the ED capships are now beating the APD capships by a large margin now is that their primary weapons are higher damage type (ion to blast) and they have omni launchers contrasting to the forward firearc of APD capships. So ED capships have 2 advantages over APD capships and APD capships no longer have the advantage of WMD weapons which used to allow them to beat ED capships with lower damage type.
While the Sova-10 leaves a lot to be desired it still is an excellent weapon with a range of 120ls which easily outranges any other weapon that a player can get at level 4. I held onto my Sova-10 until I got an IM90 as its range was superb for shooting down swarm gunships throughout the middle game, this was in addition to the fact that I couldn't find an omni particle beam weapon in my playthrough.
If you can find an omni particle beam weapon early enough its worth keeping it over a Turbolaser as you can outrange Charon Frigates with it.
Edit: I'll leave my earlier comments on the Sentoku and Yamato, but after some testing the Sentoku and Yamato can win if they are the aggressors from long range.
The otoroshi cannon could alternatively be balanced by just cutting the power use down to L1-2 levels. At 5MW it drains power from the Raijin at alarming speed.
Good point about the range on particle weapons. Obviously I don't kite capital ships with energy weapons much (I prefer to outclass them and take them out quickly at close range, or use missiles if that isn't practical).
After thinking about it a bit more, many of the missiles in core might be overpriced by factors of up to 2 or so. On top of that, many of them are just bad due to overspecialization, fragments being hard to balance, etc. But the expansion missiles are still underpriced by several times in many cases.
See also: Otoroshi Cannon should be "turret"
Dreaming Horde's level 9 Nomad blaster only has a powerUse of 30 MW. It should be higher.
Otoroshi: I agree that being external is a big drawback and needs to be compensated. I've decreased power consumption to 30 MW (same as omni laser) and increased damage to 2d6 (from 1d6). [Also renamed it to "turret".]
Sova-10: Increased damage to 1d8+4 (from 1d8).
Sova-900: Increased damage to 3d12 (from 2d12).
Ammo weapons: I've also rebalanced the prices/mass of ammo. In general, I've increased the price of CC/EP ammo and decreased the price of Core ammo. And I've reduced the mass of most ammo (particularly Core).
That seems reasonable for the Sova-10 and Otoroshi, and will make ED and APD gunships slightly less of a joke. The improved Sova-900 completely outclasses the omni ion, and is better for most purposes than the IM-90. Those weapons might need a buff at this point, though.
I looked through the changes to core here: https://github.com/kronosaur/Transcendence/commit/d590ba13d1b07a2ce55cba1fd6c913ab4dcfba30
Overall, it seems like more ammo types might be useful. I'm starting to come around on the lower prices for low level ammo. I realized that I'd basically never consider buying ammo in the first few systems, unless I absolutely needed it to fight a Charon frigate or something.
However, I think there are a few issues:
- NAMI: I thought it made sense that the KM500 Stiletto and KM550 Broadsword were tracking versions of the KM100 Longbow and KM120 Brute, respectively, with the tracking package adding some weight. Now it appears that the tracking versions have more damage for the same weight. But the bigger problem is that doubling the damage of the Stiletto will make Charon Frigates quite brutal. Also, the XM900 Lucifer has always been heavier than Gotha missiles, but that probably doesn't make sense.
- MAG: The 3K Siege MAG still masses 120 and costs 250. It needs to be brought into line. Also, the 800F and ZG24 are probably not as effective as they're supposed to be because of problems with fragments (see http://ministry.kronosaur.com/record.hexm?id=3265). And the High-flux MAG seems rather overpriced for its damage, especially considering that it's slow and unguided.
- Makayev: The Black Strelka doesn't seem to have had its price and mass adjusted either. The increased WMD and number of fragments will help, but it's still probably not that much better than the Red Strelka.
- Rasiermesser: These have been my favorites for a while now. I was not expecting the Gotha-400 to get a 40% damage increase, but I can't complain. The new prices (300 and 600) seem rather high compared to the Lucifer (120 cr, almost as powerful) or the M2 Vulcan (300 cr, roughly twice as powerful). Also, now that the more powerful one is also the one with tracking, they probably shouldn't be the same mass.
- NAMI heavy: The improved M2 Vulcan seems solid, though it will make defending the Antarctica significantly harder. That battle might need to be adjusted. The S3 Medusa now does a ridiculous 936 total damage, making it almost as good against compartments as the M2, and dramatically better against shields and armor. The M5 Nemesis hasn't been improved, making it worse than the others. While it creates a lot of blast damage fragments, they're not going to be very effective compared to the thermo.
- Akan 30: With all the low level missiles coming down in price, it's bizarre that this went up to 24 credits. It's only a bit more damaging than a Longbow (5 cr), and less than a Brute or 400 MAG (12 cr), with much less WMD. It seemed fine at 6 cr.
- Thermo cannon: Similarly, this is very overpriced at 95 cr. It might be in line with the High-flux MAG, but comparing it to the Lucifer or Red Strelka suggests the appropriate price is under 50. Also, these last two are ammo for unguided primary weapons, so you can expect to need hundreds or thousands of them.
Comments about upcoming changes for ammo:
Warhammer nuke damage from 4d12 to 2d10 applies to direct hits only, not the shockwave which is still at 2d12. This is different from the micronuke that has shockwave damage lowered from 1d12 to 1d10.
The lowered cost of missiles means some of them are worth ten credits or less and no longer boost reputation in Battle Arena gladiator fights when used. This makes the advice of using missiles in Battle Arena less valuable.
@nms:
NAMI Missiles: Good analysis, thank you. I've lowered the tech levels of both the KM500 and KM550 to bring the damage down. They are closer to the original idea now: KM500 is 5d6 and KM550 is 10d6.
MAGs: I've adjusted the price/mass for the Siege MAG. I've changed the fragments on the 800 MAG to blast (since it is a level 5 weapon). (I think the ZG24 is OK). I decreased the price slightly for the High-Flux MAG. It's about double the price of an XM900, but fires 30% faster and does 30% more damage.
Black Strelka: I've decreased the price.
Gotha: The increased damage justifies the increased cost, in my opinion. Also, the Gothas are faster than the XM900 (.7c vs .4c).
NAMI heavy: You're right about the S3, I neglected to account for the fact that each fragment is tracking. I've cut the damage in half.
Akan 30: The cost goes to extra damage (relative to other weapons of the same level). But I've reduced the cost to 20 credits. Note also that both the Akan 30 and Thermo cannon have very high fire rates compared to missiles, so dps is higher (at a commensurate increase in cost).
Thanks for your feedback, it was very helpful!
@megas: Thanks for the comment on the Battle Arena. I've changed the threshold to >=5 credits.
I've also reduced the Warhammer shockwave damage to 2d10. Thanks!